Our teachers are giving mid term exams right now. One of my requests is that they completely align the mid terms with the Regents, taking Regents exam questions on content that’s been covered to date and giving a test that mirrors the Regents.
Having said that, if a student goes on-line and looks up all of the old Regents exams and answer keys, works the problems, studies the answers, and scores a 100 on the mid-term, what do you call that? Cheating or Resourceful?
I think this takes initiative, review, and serious study time. The teacher knows the exams and keys are out there, pieces together old questions to make the exam, everyone has the same opportunity to look up the questions and answers, is it cheating?
I know that the issue has been resolved, but I’d like to add one more comment to this post if I may. “Hurt student” please read the entire post as I think it may teach you a thing or two.
First, let me tell you a story about when I was getting my Master’s Degree 4 years ago. At the end of our program of study we had a choice of writing a thesis or taking what they called an “intensive examination.” I hate research and have always been an ace test-taker, so of course I chose a 6+ hour exam rather than months of writing and rewriting. We were allowed to choose our own exam day. You simply showed up at the department office, picked up an envelope with the questions and a disk, and went on your way to take the exam wherever you felt most comfortable. The disk full of essays was due back by 5pm. My best friend and I decided to take the exam on the same day. We picked up our envelopes, went to a nearby computer lab, sat at opposite ends of the room, and got to work. We IM’d each other at lunch time, took a break to eat, and then got back to the exam.
Here is where I feel this story is relevant. I COULD have worked with my best friend. I COULD have used a year and a half worth of notes to help me. I COULD have looked up answers on the internet. I COULD have taken the disk home and worked on my own computer. No one was watching us. But I didn’t do any of these things. Why not? Because that’s not me. That would have gone against my own personal values. This test was a test of my knowledge, what I had learned over the course of the program. It wasn’t a test to see if I could find the answers in my notebook or on the internet. Sure, some people probably did. And you know what? That’s really none of my business. I don’t care what they did, because I know I prepared for this exam by showing up to class every day even when it was a summer course and it was 90 degrees and my friends were going out on someone’s boat. I went to class from 7-10 pm after a whole day of student teaching at some inner-city middle school. I studied the guide we were given over and over again. I got a good night’s sleep the night before. I did what I could do to get the best grade I could earn. In the end I was responsible for my failure or success and nobody else.
So, yes your midterm exam was flawed. The administration of it was not what I would have done in my own classroom. Some people used outside resources. Your teacher is not perfect. Life is not fair. But did you do the best that you could do, and do you feel good about the way that you took your exam? That’s what matters. In a few months you will leave this little G-Town bubble and have to make it in the “real world” where no one cares if you don’t think something is fair. There will always be some people who find a flaw in the system and exploit it for their own gain. If you spend your life worrying and complaining about what the person next to you is doing, you’re going to be pretty miserable. All you can do is your best and what feels right to you. So think about it. Stop worrying about what someone else did and take charge of your own grade and your own success. You will have the satisfaction of knowing that you relied on your own hard work and that you really earned the grade that you achieved and that’s what really matters.
This post has certainly generated a lot of conversation and much has been learned since the original post. One point of clarification is that the administration of the test included our students seeing the entire test on a Thursday and then coming back to it on a Friday. Not the best practice, so after MUCH CONSIDERATION and CONVERSATION, we are deeming this test invalid. Based on the invalidity of the administration of this test, our students are able to retest with a new mid-term exam or to keep the second quarter grade without the mid-term test figured in. All grades on this administration of the mid-term are considered invalid. Averages for the course will be recalculated after the retest and new report cards will be issued for all Physics students. We will wait to issue our greatly anticipated “top ten” class rank letters until all recalcs are done. Thank you to everyone who added to the conversation as this post will auto-close to comments after 21 days, as all posts on this blog do, sometime this weekend.
ok maybe thats why it all started but now that the teacher gave everyone a curve from the second highest grade(which i don’t think he should have) why is everyone still talking about it and being so upset about it? Everyone got 11 pts added onto there original grade which is a lot. I still don’t think she cheated, but they still got extra pts, so it should be over and dropped right?
One thing to clarify my first blog, in the first point I made, I referenced the fact that the 100% ruined the curve that had been intended for the test. This fact, whether you’d like to admit it or not, is what really fueled the fire to start calling “cheater” at the student with a perfect score.
“However, the test was a “nothing but your pencil and reference table test.” No other students had aides in answering the questions.”
Like our physics teacher said, according to the document we weren’t supposed to have any information about the test before hand; but everyone signed it and like he said, he herd every student talking about it the second we walked out the door. Everyone was saying oh what did you get for number whatever and what did you get for this question. Everyone cheated according to the document that they signed. So everybody had “aides” to the test they had each other’s (classmates) help. I still do not Alex cheated she used her resources and like i said before she knew how to do everyone of those questions and she always asked for help outside of class on things she did not understand.
To start off, I would like everyone to know that I am a student at Gowanda High School that is not currently in the Physics class that is currently in the midst of a testing conflict. I do believe that there are a couple of points that people seem to be overlooking:
1.) A curved grade is not a right, it is up to the teacher to decide whether or not they choose to GIVE FREE POINTS to their students. If one student was able to score a 100% on a test by means that broke no rules and are readily available to everyone, then why did not all the students score as well? In an advanced course such as Physics, it is not due to lack of ability.
2.) The teacher has the responsibility to compile the test. Not to steal a test, but to pick and choose questions that will challenge all the students of the class, especially those that have proven that they are willing to commit the hours of study required. It should be known that I have a great deal of respect for the teacher in question, but I do not agree with how he chose to go about creating or administering the midterm. As I have stated, it should not have been a direct Regents, but a mixture of questions from the past several exams. Also, to have both portions of the exam available on both days, therefore giving the students a chance to study the material they know is on the test, is leaving the door to cheating wide open. These two facts coupled together make for a situation extremely vulnerable to questionable results.
I hope I introduced a couple ideas that will make this situation go away so you guys can get on with enjoying your senior year.
I think all of this is crazy. This has been going on for long enough and I think it just needs too be dropped. Jess, you said that you haven’t brought it up again…Yet you keep bringing it up over and over again and certainly won’t let me forget it. I have feelings too! The fact that all of this is going on and I have people constantly talking about me beind my back it hurts. Especially coming from someone who I valued as a friend. Hearing about this every single day and being called a cheater numerous times by numerous people is tiring and no matter how hard I try to not let it get to me it does! I know that you feel what you did was right, however I feel that what I did was perfectly acceptable as well. I did not cheat, bottom line. I used to resources…And I understood how to do every problem on that exam. I didn’t just memorize the answers. I have all the work done on my test if you really want to see it. I don’t really know what else you want me to say or what you want to be done. I just wish you would drop it already…We agree to disagree, end of story. But please, don’t continue making my life a living hell for the next 5 months. I don’t want to keep hearing about it and about what YOU think should be done. Its over and done with!
First of all i think this has been going on way to long!! This student that used her resources to do good on the exam passed becuase she knows how to do everyone of these problems. Like before stated, you need to show all your work on parts II, III, and IV. There is no way that she could have gotten 100 on this exam if she did not know what she was doing even if she had the answers. She did not take the answers to the exam, she did not memorize the answers, like i said before she knew how to do every one of those problems. Just because you (any physics student) aren’t the one who got tho 100 you don’t need to be angry with her. When she did not understand how to do a problem or didn’t understand a part of the material that we talked about in class, she went and talked to the teacher and found out how to do it. I think this whole thing needs to be dropped and people need to leave her alone. This is in no way going to affect the class rank either. it is 20% of a semester or a quarter grade it is not going to boost her grade up enough to make her Valedictorian.
Jess,
While I support the discourse happening here, and I understand that everyone who comments isn’t going to agree with me, and I think I can learn from a good disagreement, I take exception to the repeated comments left by you that question my integrity. I have also refrained from arguing with you on this blog, as I believe it requires a face to face conversation which will take place tomorrow in class. However, I did not ask you “not to mention this again”, I asked you all not to talk about it until I had a chance to investigate further, to talk to the other parties. I have spent a considerable amount of time listening to YOU personally, because I value you and what you have to say. I have told you that I understand your point of view,and in a follow up conversation that I disagree with you, that I don’t see this as cheating. I’ve answered you, you just haven’t liked my answer. I haven’t lied to you and I’m not sure what you think I promised you. Originally, your teacher planned to retest the student. Upon further investigation and extensive conversation, we decided not to do that and he curved the test from the next highest grade.
It’s not that I haven’t followed through, I’ve spent considerable time discussing the issue with you, the teacher, the department leader, the guidance director, the other student, the superintendent, and any other student who’s wanted to discuss it. I make mistakes like the next person, but I do listen, follow through, and make decisions that are as fair as possible to EVERYONE. I have continued to respect you and all of our students throughout this. I’m sorry that you’ve now made this about me. It seems you didn’t hear half of our conversation.
Again, we’ll discuss it tomorrow. This is enough.
This was in no way an open book test. First off, it was a mid-term, in a Regents class. Secondly, an open book test would imply that every student was allowed to use their class notes and, sure the exact answers. However, the test was a “nothing but your pencil and reference table test.” No other students had aides in answering the questions.
Being the student that went to Mrs. Moritz, I would agree that this has gone on way too long. The day that I went to the office, with other students to back me up, I was asked not to mention it again. Up until now, I have done what was asked of me. What you all need to realize, is that I was promised a specific solution. This was not follwed through. This has become an issue, not of the student who used the answer key, but of the words that were said and not meant.
Now that you know my point of view, I ask IF YOU WERE IN THE CLASS, how would you feel? What would you do?
Myself and a small group of students did what we felt was right and I stick by my actions. If this happened again today, even knowing that this would happen, I would do the sme thing I did before.
I would consider this an open book test, plain and simple, not cheating.
To answer you Jordan, everyone knew that the test was taken from an old Regents. Everyone has access to the internet for over 6 hours, everyone of these students had access to the internet. Also, about 10 people knew that this person had the test and answers…Meaning we knew that they were right at our finger tips. I could have even just asked that particular student to give me the answers they found, is that resourceful? No. Absolutely not. That may seem to be only hurting yourself, but it affects the entire class and IT’S NOT FAIR. You’re right, this has gone on too long. Unfortunately, it’s going to follow us all through the rest of the year, due to the fact that the student is being congratulated for it. And I personally am prepared to deal with it for the next 5 months, as I think everyone should be, because it’s not going to just go away.
If every student had access to the Internet, and every student took the test over a two day period, then how can one student be labeled a cheater because they recognized the test.Should a student be condemned for their resourceful thinking? Absolutely not! I believe that if they had thought about doing this for themselves, they would be singin’ a different tune. Their angry because they didn’t think of it. Also the claim that this is going to affect everyones class rank is preposterous. This test is twenty percent of the students first semester average in physics. Does a student not have several other courses that all combine to affect their class rank. Also, if the student being accused is even in the running for valedictorian, who’s place is it to say that this student would not have aced the test even without their resourceful thinking. I believe this whole soap opera has gone on way too long and everyone needs to suck it up and move on.
A comment on your response to “concerned parent of a senior.”
As a student, I have, as I believe the teachers have, been taught to take a mid-term exactly like a Regents. I would think that that would be the reason that the tests are pieced together from old Regents and also why we are required to sign that famous front page, the exact one from the Regents.
I have to side with this parent that there needs to be action taken to make this right. It did not as you added in another post affect only a small group of these students, it affected every one of them. It is unfortunate that you feel that it only affects the students who came to you, because the only reason that the rest of the class does not know what happened is because the students that came to you did not announce the problem to everyone. I know that I would be perfectly willing to re-take this to put a fair spin on things. As a matter of fact, the rest of the class did so poorly I can’t imagine anyone would argue a second chance.
You say that this will not affect the class rank directly however, to a student it is a big deal. We wait to get new class ranks and believe it or not one class, or a grade from one class, especially a midterm, can change it. Last year I was ranked 14th and the next time we were re-ranked, I was only 16th. I happen to know the 2 students that were moved ahead of me, because of one semester, and we were in the same classes. After these mid-terms were over, we were promised new class ranks. Sadly, now we are questioning the fairness of our number. Students do and should pride themselves on a good class rank and are upset to be pushed down one. We have worked incredibly hard to be top 20 in a class of 140 students, and would like to have the piece of mind that we received what we earned.
I am appalled at this statement.
My comment said absolutely nothing of who it involved.
You criticize my post and then say “Physics”
What in mine are you not posting? I will gladly delete it
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I believe that if the midterm was considered invalid for all students, this would “right” the wrong.
Mrs. Moritz,
I spent a lot of time last night writing a comment in response to this particular blog, and for some reason, it is still not up for people to read. I am very hurt and confused as to why. I understand that this is a tiring issue, however, it will never end. There was no action taken to right the situation and I feel that as a student, especially an affected one, I have every right to comment on this blog, regardless of who is going to read it. I hope that you will post at least my previous comment, if not this one. Students are also included in G-town and have a right to talk…
I realize from the comments that continue to post here that this continues to be an issue of fairness for students. Concerned parent: Please realize that this was not a Regents test, it was a teacher designed mid-term. Almost all of our mid-terms contain old Regents questions. I maintain that the problem lies in the administration of the test over two days. And one mid-term, which is 20% of the second quarter grade, in one class, is NOT going to determine Val and Sal–will likely not influence class rank at all, that’s determined over 3 1/2 years of work. The issue of class rank keeps coming up in this topic and I don’t understand why. It’s tough to make great gains in this area and certainly not from one mid-term exam. What if the test were considered invalid for everyone based on the fact that students had it for two days? What if all students were asked to test again based on this fact?
When I first heard about this situation, I too felt that the “cheater” took initiative that other students chose not to take advantage of. After hearing the whole story, my feelings changed. I believe that when a student takes a Regents exam, they are required to sign a confirmation which states that they did not have prior knowledge as to the test questions or an aide in answering the questions. In this case, all of the students had prior knowledge to the test questions, which was not their fault, but one student obviously had an aide in answering the questions. This is not fair to the other students. This is especially not fair if it were to affect a student to lose a place as valedictorian to the student who “cheated.” This could conceivably affect every senior when it comes to class rank. Tests given should not be taken directly off of the internet. In this case unfortunately that did happen. Did a student “cheat?” I’m not sure, however, I do know that the student should be required to retest with different questions. This is a simple solution to an unfortunate situation.
I’ve spent the last 17 years in the Marine Corps as an Intelligence analyst. I got kids about six months after they graduated H.S. and had to teach them to make life or death decisions. This is the kind of student I’d hope for. I always thought education was more about teaching someone to think than it was the memorization of facts. The initiative to go out and find the info and then learn it for the tests makes the perfect score achieved a perfect measure of teaching success. What’s more important, memorized information or the ability to solve the problem?
both of you make points in the previous posts. yes every student could have gone and find the old regents exams. however i don’t think that they should use it to get answers to a test they already started. they could use the answers to find the formulas they could use but not to get the answers to get a 100%. therefore i think they should be labeled a cheater as david stated. the student did however print the answers and take them to the test. i think that they should have at least made a completely new test and not let the person leave to room until they are done with the test. the only reason that this person did this is to improve their class rank. cheating is cheating and this is a prime example of cheating. i don’t think punishment is the proper path but a retest and an apology would be the proper thing to do. but no one will stop until someone admitts that they are wrong because it is unfair to those students who took their tests straight up and didn’t test.
In response to David’s comment, at the time I posted this I didn’t understand that students had access to the entire test two days in a row. I thought it would take studying several old Regents exams to be successful.
Test administration is a teacher’s responsibility and the mid-term should have been given in two parts to avoid this problem in the first place. Given the circumstances of the administration of the test, I still maintain that this student was not cheating. Any student could have studied difficult questions further and all Regents exam questions are easily available on-line. I disagree that the student needs to be punished and called a “cheater” as you have done. Future administrations of this test will be handled much differently.
I think you should get the real story on here and fix what you put into your blog.you need to make people realize that this “cheater” had the actual test and used that to get a 100% on the mid-term. The student did’nt go home and study he or she went home and memorized the test after he or she realized that they had the same exact test as that was being given in class. and the teacher should mix it up not be dumb and give the same exact test as he found on the internet the teacher needs to not be lazy. But the student should aslso be punished for it.
For those who are questioning if students are learning anything from getting the answers off-line, students still need to show work on parts II, III and IV on our math tests and this is true in the sciences as well. The answer keys provided do not show how to get the answers, only the end result. So a student who goes on-line to get problems to study from, still needs to figure out how to get to the answer of the problem, and isn’t the process more important than the answer anyway?
I do however think that you should compile your exams from many exams to encourage students to prepare fully, rather than searching for the exam you’ve chosen.
I don’t think it’s cheating – but I don’t think it’s learning either. Which of course calls into question the assessment, though this assessment undoubtedly prepares kids for the Regents. Tough pickle.
Absolutely not! Students who go on-line to look up the exams and answers are resourceful. They are the best type of students. They have explored an avenue of learning far beyond what any one teacher can teach. We owe it to our students to encourage learning from multiple resources.
This has been going on for years except now the Internet makes it easier to find the answers. Make the tests more performance oriented and less multiple choice. I know that’s a lot of extra work, but it’s one way to discover how much students really know. Give’em a real life problem to solve. It would be good preparation for life.
Kim,
I do not think this is cheating, but you do have to question if they are really learning or just “knowing enough” to pass the test.