Comments on: Teacher’s Rule or Principal’s Rule?

By: Cindy

Cindy — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:54:41 +0000

As a parent, I don’t feel cell phones and ipods should be carried in school. I hope my daughter doesn’t use her ipod in school, she doesn’t have a cell phone. Yes, you read that correctly! My husband and I don’t feel a 15 year old needs a cell phone. If she is going out with her friends, I give her mine. Parents saying they need to be able to reach their children during the day, can do so through the office. If it’s a forgotten appointment – call the office, the secretaries will get in touch with your child. If it is an illness, injury or death (the only other reasons I can think of as emergencies!) in the family, I don’t want to inform my child over the PHONE! Children are at school to learn, not talk on the phone or play with their ipods! They should be locked up in their lockers and stay there until the end of the day. Mom’s rule! No discussion in my house! Old fashioned? Maybe. But it works in my house.

By: acassidy

acassidy — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:25:00 +0000

As a veteran teacher on staff at Gowanda, I have sat through many faculty meetings where blanket statements have been made about enforcing rules and the expectation that consistent enforcement would minimize adverse effects of established rules. As others have noted it becomes the teacher’s point of view, and willingness to be in charge that dictates whether rules are uniformally imposed. I must say that is what discourages me. I may not agree with all school rules, but once established, I try to enforce them to the best of my ability. There is a forum to discuss things I disagree with and others have opportunity to weigh in on decisions that effect our school environment. That is when things can be brought up and change suggested. If the majority decides something should be enforced as a school wide rule, then all should respect that. We are charged with teaching life lessons every day. I can think of none better than the ability to work as a group for the greater good, even when it may not be what I would wish. I explain this to my students whenever the rules are questioned and consequently, I seldom have issues with things of this nature. Students will generally rise to the expectations we set, especially if they know it is the same no matter who’s presence they are in.

By: mrc

mrc — Sun, 04 Mar 2007 11:50:53 +0000

I had an interesting scenario related to these kinds of rules happen this year. Our school rules and situation last year were very similar to yours now: Electronics can be carried but not used, except when allowed by a teacher. Before school started this year, we met as a staff. One teacher proposed that we have a consistent rule, schoolwide, that no iPods or CD players be used during class. Now last year, I allowed students to use iPods at times, and I was not looking forward to having to enforce someone else’s rules. But there was one question he asked that I could not get away from: “What is the educational effect of listening to music while working?” And I had to admit that I wasn’t letting kids listen because I thought it would help them, I was allowing it to avoid fighting about it. The loud rap music that they universally wanted to play in their headphones was definitely not helping them do their math work.

So I don’t know what you should do as a school policy, but perhaps a starting point of the discussion can be, “What is our academic objective in allowing students to listen to music during class?” You might even be able to get your two teachers to propose this as a school rule, and then you could facilitate some discussion amongst the staff. Your staff may reach the conclusion that music is good for certain kinds of learning activities. Or they may decide that it isn’t. But asking your teachers to think harder about the core of this issue is definitely worth the time.

By: kimberly

kimberly — Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:08:43 +0000

It is about the actions not the tools. We tell students you may not run with scissors – we don’t ban scissors.

If students disrupt class, cheat, bully – those actions need to have consequences. For that student one consequence might be not being allowed to use the tool or have possession of it is school.

Now I teach elementary – so my perspective is different. We have a total ban on personal electronics. I’ve had a couple of kids with medical emergencies in the family. Their parents wanted the kids to have cell phones on them, in case they something happened right before or after dismissal and after school plans had to be changed.

I admit, I developed a sudden blindness. The student’s Mother had cancer, her father had a heart attack, and her grandmother who came down to take care of the kids – ended up having open heart surgery. I wasn’t going to add to the child’s stress because she had a turned off cell phone in her backpack. On at least one occasion, her Mom got caught in traffic (all lanes of freeway were shut down due to an accident with an 18 wheeler) coming home from MD Anderson. If the child had not been told mom wouldn’t be home (via the cell phone), she would have been terrified that something bad had happened at Mom’s appointment.

By: bsnaxton

bsnaxton — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:22:30 +0000

Kim,
I can see why you were nominated for a thinking blogger. You can really put it out there. I agree with your comment about consistency. If it is a rule, it only works if everyone enforces it. The problem is that everyone usually has different values over the enforcement of the rule. I think one of the overall arching questions is how do we get teachers to be consistent with their enforcement of school wide rules. In my staff meetings on the biggest issues when bringing up any new policy is how consistent will it be enforced.
I also enjoyed reading Kellys comment. I have never thought about the fact that when a teacher gives up the power,i.e. sending a kid to the office they have given up the right to choose a consequence. That is an interesting way to look at things. Currently I don’t look at discipline that way, but maybe I need to. I do know that as a teacher, I did everything I could to keep the discipline in my classroom, thereby keeping the authority in the classroom as well.
Brian

By: Educational Discourse » Pats and Passions

Educational Discourse » Pats and Passions — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:45:06 +0000

[...] First, I’d like to pass along some Pats on the back to people I’ve been reading over the past week or so. Kimberly Moritz at G-Town Talks has had some wonderful posts about setting rules and the whole decision making process within the school context. I know that a blog is good when it makes me sit back and reflect about what goes on within the walls of our school. While reflecting, I like to see what others are saying about the topic and found that Chris Lehman’s post added more for me to think about so another Pat goes that way. [...]

By: Elona

Elona — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 00:03:31 +0000

Yesterday, we have been given a new directive regarding cell phones at our school. If we see a kid with a cell phone in the school anywhere, we are to identify ourselves as Mr or Ms so and so and take the kid to the office and admin will deal with the student. This happened after some kids used their cell phones to take pictures of a teacher loosing his or her cool in the classroom and posting the pictures along with sound on the MySpace and another incident of students taking pictures of another a student being bullied and thinking that it was funny and posting the pictures on Myspace with inappropriate comments. I did not see one phone today.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:54:42 +0000

I think I will change the word “teacher” with “manager” and “principal” with “hr manager” and distribute to my managers. Slightly different because you are their “chain of command” whereas I am not but they are way to willing to give they power away to me anyway. Leaders just don’t realize that when they don’t own their own decisions, the reprecussions are far more widespread than just that one incident.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:37:47 +0000

This is an issue we struggle with at our Oklahoma high school as well. Our policy: phones must be turned off and left in a locker or in the student’s car during the day. The reality: students carry their phones but do a good job of keeping them off and out of sight. We have far fewer cell phone infractions now that we’ve tightened our policy from “you may carry your phone but it must be off during the school day.” The discipline policy is 1st offense=verbal warning and parent must pick up the phone; 2nd offense=4 hour detention and parent must pick up the phone; 3rd offense=8 hours detention or Friday school service and parent must pick up the phone.

As to emergency situations, I know that parents want the reassurance of being able to contact their children directly in the event of an emergency, but that heavy use of cell phones is actually a detriment because it can interfere with emergency communications efforts.

By: Karl Fisch

Karl Fisch — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:25:44 +0000

Not an easy issue and just one of the reasons I’m glad I’m not a principal! A few thoughts, in no particular order:

1. My school is less than 10 miles from Columbine. We locked down that day, dogs searched the building the next night, lots of connections between our school and Columbine for both students and staff. That was the last time anybody thought that a cell phone ban was a possibility.

2. Have you brought your students into this discussion? They might have a lot to share . . .

3. For what it’s worth, some thoughts I blogged earlier this year.

Keep us posted on how this goes.